InANNities, Part I

June 13th, 2006 Black Ops Posted in Commentary, Reviews |

THERE IS NO REASON TO EXPECT, for example, that the first place our eyes ever appeared was on the front of our faces. Why don’t we have ancestors with eyes on the bottom of their feet, on their arms, or on top of their heads? Eyes might be best positioned in the front of our heads, but eyes on the bottom of our feet are better than no eyes all, and so should have stuck around at least for a while in the fossil record. But they’re not there.

Godless, p. 218

They’re “not there”? We wonder if Ann — or more likely, her ghostwriter, Bill Dembski — bothered to do much looking at the record:

starfish arm diagram

Image courtesy of the USF Clipart ETC collection: http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/

What is this? It’s a diagram of the arm of a starfish, helpfully labeled by our crack staff to indicate the location of its light-sensing organs. And it’s not like they’re new — echinoderms of the superclass Stelleroidea, which include starfish and their relatives, have only been around for 450 million years or so. “They’re not there”? Try the beach.

28 Responses to “InANNities, Part I”

  1. I hope she gets in trouble for this.

  2. Gerard Harbison Says:

    Coulter’s book is a collection of lies, vileness, non-sequiturs, and general nonsense. But I nominate the ‘eyes on the feet’ quote as the best piece of sheer stupidity in the book. Of course, the only sea-creatures Coulter has heard of are on the menu at Lutece.

    Dembski, BTW, knows no biology either.

  3. [...] InANNities, Part I (complete with picture of starfish) [...]

  4. Actually, there is a very good reason that bilateral creatures, at least would have eyes on their heads. That’s the part that generally moves forwards and encounters stuff first, and the pattern of clustering all of the major central nervous sytem functions in the head is a particularly ancient one that once established, is unlikely to get reworked.

  5. Love this site and the coments.
    Thanks for giving me a cheerup.

  6. >>>But I nominate the ‘eyes on the feet’ quote as the best piece of sheer stupidity in the book

  7. {But I nominate the ‘eyes on the feet’ quote as the best piece of sheer stupidity in the book}

    It’s right up there, er, I mean down there. But I say it’s impossible to choose. There are just too many insanely unaccountable assertions to choose from: Things that make you go, “What The ….?!?”

    For example, how (in the …) did Ann conclude — from a single article in the New York Times, that as I recall never mentioned anything evolutionary — that evilutionists are obsessed with the topic of “Girl Crushes”?

    Thankfully Darwin Central’s minions have apparently been successful in excising all evidence of “Girl Crush” research from the major scientific indexes. Mwauhahahaha!

  8. I’m sorry, everyone, but I don’t think you’ve got Ann here.

    This isn’t evidence of human ancestors with eyes on their feet. Vertebrates like us our not descended from echinoderms!

  9. Okay, now all you genuises gotta do is prove that starfish are our ancestors.

    Otherwise, your whines are emtpy.

  10. Nobody is arguing that we are descended from echinoderms, of course, but we do naturally have a common ancestor. While it would have been simple to argue that Ann is simply being stupid in her point - which would hardly be unusual for her book - and that there’s no reason to expect such ancestors of ours, it seems simpler just to point out that all sorts of body plans exist on earth, Coulter’s ignorance notwithstanding.

  11. it seems simpler just to point out that all sorts of body plans exist on earth, Coulter’s ignorance notwithstanding

    You mean “its irrelevance notwithstanding”, don’t you? Given that the context of Ann’s discussion is our ancestors, body plans of non-ancestors coudn’t be more irrelevant.

  12. Given that the context of Ann’s discussion is our ancestors, body plans of non-ancestors coudn’t be more irrelevant.

    Why exactly are we supposed to expect direct ancestors with eyes at the ends of their limbs? Is the universe somehow obligated to indulge Coulter’s bizarre fantasies about what the fossil record “should” look like?

  13. Liberal Classic Says:

    That looks just like one of my Paisley ties.

  14. Why exactly are we supposed to expect direct ancestors with eyes at the ends of their limbs?

    It appears that Coulter’s sarcasm is simply going over your head. She’s obviously making fun of this whole “half an eye is better than no eye at all” statement that Darwinians often fall back on when confronted with the question of eye evolution.

    Is the universe somehow obligated to indulge Coulter’s bizarre fantasies about what the fossil record “should” look like?

    Obviously, the universe isn’t “obligated” to “do” anything, but it’s interesting to see a Darwinian evolutionist anthropomorphize the universe in an act of obvious sarcasm while failing to comprehend the sarcasm in Coulter’s statement.

    However, that being said, the fossil record should indeed look a certain way if the Darwinian model is to be taken seriously, but it doesn’t. However, that doesn’t seem to really bother the Darwinists — they just claim that the evidence fits anyway…

  15. It appears that Coulter’s sarcasm is simply going over your head. She’s obviously making fun of this whole “half an eye is better than no eye at all” statement that Darwinians often fall back on when confronted with the question of eye evolution.

    Oh, I see - so it’s not a serious criticism of the theory of evolution at all. It’s just a joke. Well, hell - why don’t we stick this kind of inanity in the “humor” section of the bookstore, where you obviously think it belongs?

    Speaking of “fall back positions”, I love this thing that the Coulterbators have going, where we’re supposed to take her seriously, and look upon her work as serious commentary. But then, when you do so, and it falls apart under close scrutiny - and this book is no exception; see David Horowitz’s review of “Treason” for equally disturbing stupidities - then it’s a joke. It’s just sarcasm. It’s not serious.

    Well, hey, thanks for playing, sea-bass - when you want to discuss an author whose major ambition is something more than court jester, drop us a line.

  16. Oh, I see - so it’s not a serious criticism of the theory of evolution at all. It’s just a joke.

    Apparently, the entire concept of sarcasm is beyond you…

    Well, hell - why don’t we stick this kind of inanity in the “humor” section of the bookstore, where you obviously think it belongs?

    See what I mean? You seem unable to figure out that one can use humor as a way to criticize. Like I said, she was making fun of Darwinian Dogma by putting the shoe on the other foot. Not surprising that you don’t get it, but try to avoid the whole issue by insisting that her use of humor somehow means that her whole book is “just a joke”.

    sea-bass

    I see you are unable to argue science or logic, and must fall back onto juvenile ad hominem instead. Not surprising.

  17. You seem unable to figure out that one can use humor as a way to criticize.

    That works as long as the criticism makes sense. But of course, the whole objection is just stupid on its face. There’s no reason we should expect to see ancestors with eyes on their limbs in the fossil record, and of course Coulter provides no reason. Nevermind, it’s just sarcasm. Okay, let’s not take it seriously, since it’s not a serious objection. Oh, but it is a serious objection. Which brings us back to the first point - no, it’s not a serious objection, it’s a heap of shit.

    I’ve no doubt you find such rationalizations satisfying, but you’ll have to forgive those of us who take such silliness rather less seriously. Coulter is fundamentally incapable of attacking anything other than her own strawman inventions, and the eyes-on-the-palms-of-their-hands thing is merely one small example of that. If you want to believe she’s serious when it’s convenient for your argument, and sarcastic when it’s not, go right ahead - at $27.95 list, I really doubt she’ll bother to disagree with you much.

  18. But of course, the whole objection is just stupid on its face.

    Just like the Darwinian Dogma it’s making fun of. I think you might be starting to get it. “Half an eye is better than no eye at all” is a pretty stupid attempt at derailing criticism of eye evolution, namely, that there is no actual evidence of a photosensitive spot evolving into a lensed mammalian eye.

    but you’ll have to forgive those of us who take such silliness rather less seriously

    Should we also forgive you for taking the silliness known as Darwinian evolution seriously?

    I have no interest in any of Coulter’s books, personally, but I do find it entertaining that people who insists that they don’t take her seriously spend so much virtual ink arguing against her statements.

  19. Just like the Darwinian Dogma it’s making fun of.

    Uh, huh. I think your problem is that you’ve confused “doesn’t make sense to me” with “doesn’t make sense at all”. On the theory that you’re merely ignorant of the state of neo-Darwinian theory WRT the evolution of the eye, you can start here:

    http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/eye.html

    I have no interest in any of Coulter’s books, personally, but I do find it entertaining that people who insists that they don’t take her seriously spend so much virtual ink arguing against her statements.

    You misunderstand, of course. Her objections to the theory of evolution are not serious - they are a collection of strawmen, half-truths, and in some cases, outright falsehoods. They do not present a serious challenge to the theory, in that respect. However, the fact that far too many people take Coulter’s inane cartoon version of evolution seriously…well, that’s a cause for concern. I’ve no doubt you’re quite comfortable with the idea of conservatism and cretardism being synonymous. We are not.

  20. Uh, huh. I think your problem is that you’ve confused “doesn’t make sense to me” with “doesn’t make sense at all”.

    No confusion on my part, but the unbridled arrogance on your part is amusing. It always comes down to “yer just too stoopid to get it”, when, in truth, Darwinian evolution is a dying fairy tale.

    I am aware of the “just so” stories about how it “could have” or “might have” evolved via an undirected process, but, as I said, there is no actual fossil evidence of these “just so” scenarios. What we have are various eyes, allegedly in “various stages of development”, scattered throughout the animal kingdom. Calling that “evidence” is like calling a dictionary “evidence” of Shakspeare’s works.

  21. It always comes down to “yer just too stoopid to get it”, when, in truth, Darwinian evolution is a dying fairy tale.

    Hey, I just figured you weren’t aware of the evidence, but if that’s not the case, and you actually believe that there’s no fossil evidence of eye evolution…well, if the shoe fits, eh?

    Anyway, the reality is that there’s lots of fossil evidence supporting the evolution of eyes from primitive to complex, which is additionally supported by molecular biology. Unfortunately for you, scientific theories are not overturned by the willful blindness of armchair critics. Fortunately for you, the theory of eye evolution is easy enough to overturn - get on out there and find a complex, mammalian-style eye in a Cambrian- or pre-Cambrian-era creature. Find that, and you’ll blow a great big hole in the current theory.

    Whoops, I forgot - creationists don’t do research. They just heckle from the sidelines. Well, there you go - back to the benches for ya.

  22. And you simply believe there is evidence, because guys in white lab coats told you so, or because you are gullible. Hey, if the shoe fits…

    Eh?

    Anyway, the reality is that there’s lots of fossil evidence supporting the evolution of eyes from primitive to complex, which is additionally supported by molecular biology.

    Then kindly point it out. Most of the “evidence” I have seen has been in the form of imaginative “just so” stories. It is fascinating, however, that since I reject the implausible Darwinian explanation, that I must somehow be a “creationist”.

    And yes, I do do research. Well, I read science books, including those by people such as Sean Carroll and Richard Dawkins. No, I don’t get grant money and work in a lab, but I do try to be informed, from all sides. Yes, I am a layman, but that doesn’t disqualify the legitimacy of my skepticism.

  23. Then kindly point it out. Most of the “evidence” I have seen has been in the form of imaginative “just so” stories.

    I’m afraid that blog comments are not a suitable format for remedying the deficiencies in your understanding of modern science. Ask yourself for a moment why it is that you seem to have the inside track on this whole bogus-theory thing, why you’re seeing something that virtually every legitimate evolutionary theorist, biologist, and biochemist has apparently somehow missed. Ask yourself why it is that you’re the only one, versus tens of thousands of trained specialists in the field who disagree with you.

    As for whether you find the theory of evolution plausible or implausible, I hate to deal your ego a blow, but I sincerely doubt if people who work with the theory of evolution are overly concerned that some random internet guy is skeptical of the best available explanation. It’s not like you’re unique in that. There are dozens of random internet guys, pretty much just like you, who are skeptical of the al Qaeda-theory of 9/11, the NASA-used-a-big-rocket-to-actually-go-there theory of the moon landings, or the fluoridated-water-is-not-a-commie-plot theory of public health. In the end, good science carries on, despite your personal disapproval. Sorry.

  24. Ah, yes, the whole “argument by numbers” approach, rather than producing any evidence.

    Eat shit, a billion flies can’t be wrong…

  25. Oh, and I find it rather amusing, this repeated attempt at equating Darwinism with “modern science”. Always good for a chuckle.

  26. Ah, yes, the whole “argument by numbers” approach, rather than producing any evidence.

    Uh, no - it’s not about determining the correctness of some theory based on how many people accept it. Rather, what matters is who accepts it. In this case, the people who’ve studied the evidence firsthand consider the theory of evolution to be the best available explanation. Cries of “well, I jest don’t likes it” from non-experts who haven’t seen the evidence are rather less convincing in this context. Sorry.

    Anyway, I doubt you’re convinced by any of this. I doubt anyone cares that you’re unconvinced, but in any case you can have the last word.

  27. Well, there is a growing number of experts who reject Darwinism, in spite of the entrenched dogma, and because that’s where the evidence actually leads. That’s the point.

    And, for the record, I don’t reject “evolution”, per se, because “evolution” obviously happens, given that “evolution” can mean something as vague as “change over time”. However, “Darwinism” and “evolution” are not necessarily synonymous, and I reject “Darwinism” specifically, not “evolution” in general.

    I predict that Darwinism will go the way of Marxism and Freudian thought, which is to the dustbin of history. It’s just a matter of time.

  28. Cries of “well, I jest don’t likes it” from non-experts who haven’t seen the evidence are rather less convincing in this context.

    Obviously, “Black Ops” failed to comprehend the following, which I wrote on 18-Oct-06 at 11:57 am (emphasis added):

    “I read science books, including those by people such as Sean Carroll and Richard Dawkins. No, I don’t get grant money and work in a lab, but I do try to be informed, from all sides.”

    Perhaps this type of cognative dissonance is what allows people to believe in the Darwinian fairy tale in the first place…

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